The unintended results of the Self-Esteem Movement are: Apathy/Passivity, Desensitisation and Dependence.
How are you seeing the impact of the Self-Esteem Movement expressed in the students you are engaging with?
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i have been teaching for 42 years during this time students generally speaking as have become less interested in applying themselves academically and in the quality of their work they want everything too easily got.
Omg I agree and there is no pride in the work they hand in. I also find that they always need extensions to upload their assignments and even then do not meet the dates
I know right, always wanting extensions. I’ve seen students approach their teacher towards the end of term asking them to just pass them even though they haven’t attended any of the classes.
My first teaching position was within a school that had a strong focus on character progression and resilience building. All of our teaching, learning, classroom management, etc. was founded in a character progression model. Our goal was to build student skills rather than content knowledge and to embed self regulation skills in all that we did. We as a collective staff relied on consistent task based feedback, high expectations, mistakes as learning opportunities, student/ teacher rapport, ongoing reflection and reference to the progression, and use of success criteria and learning intentions. This saw excellent growth in student emotional regulation skills, resilience, behaviours, work quality and quantity and student accountability. A growth mindset approach is difficult to implement but very worthwhile.
I really appreciate your positive take on the question, and how your school improved students, instead of just pointing out their flaws. It is really good for you, too, that you have had this experience in your career. Thank you for sharing.
What a great school to work in…not just hand held at every step, but actually shown why it’s important to do so and how students can do it themselves if they start to believe in themselves more. That failing is a bump in the road, but not a reason to give up. To learn from mistakes and challenges.
As a parent, we encourage a growth mindset, embrace failure and trying new things, but it seems to go against the kids’ natural instincts to protect themselves from failure and embarrassment. It’s got to be embedded in our family culture from such a young age.
So true, what we model within the family is vital. Sharing our stories of not always getting things on the first go and how we got there in another way, are important lessons to be learned.
What I am seeing is they need constant reassurance on what they have done but often will take very little initiative for them selves
Do you find that this is task based feedback/reassurance or more praise based?
You can hand them the answers and they still do not get it right. A poor understanding of the English language. What did they learn in junior school
The impact of the self-esteem movement manifests itself in the students I teach in their lack of internal drive and determination. It is also evident with some of my colleagues who are constantly seeking extrinsic feedback
Yes, I find this too, Fiona. It’s also difficult to change this mindset when it’s been embedded in them from such a young age.
It is interesting to think about the parallel between student and teacher modelled behaviours.
I have a mix of fixed mindset and growth mindset students. Ages vary from 17 – 54. Of course, I seem to spend more of my time with the fixed mindset students especially when they are learning new clinical skills. The other students just get on with it, and practice practice practice but the fixed mindset students need constant engagement and reassurance.
I agree with you on this point.
Self esteem leads to a sense of shame to some which inhibits their engagement in learning and trying new things.
That is true Teresa,one must learn to take little risks with accepting failure as a learning opportunity.
I think it is keeping them from progressing and accumulating knowledge. They expect an answer to their question, don’t think about it and move on. Only because they are too afraid to fail if they give the wrong answer themselves. A failure is not learning from mistakes, making mistakes is a learning opportunity.
I agree Grietje, failure is your First Attempt In Learning (FAILure)
Yes, I have had 17 year olds, say “:is that the right answer?”. They say it, so they can answer the question (regardless of their understanding of it) & move on…..more…..a ‘tick a box’ mentality…..
In my work as a Tafe teacher In Pathology. Their is a range of ages from 18 – 50 years.
There is a great range of personalities. Sometimes the older student can feel insecure at first.
A percent of the younger student expect to pass, come in late have assessment accepted late. But it is a small percentage.
In Pathology and Food industry you can not make mistakes, just ok is not good enough. It is a world where errors can kill a patient. I also have a lot of experience as a dog trainer. Positive reinforcement for good work. A large percentage of students of all age ranges respond well to very clear assessment requirements. Getting good results in the practical exercises is very satisfying. For example some students may have problems streaking an agar plate and achieving single colonies. They are so excited when they master the skill. To pass the unit they must have 3 streaked plates signed off. I am very clear what my expectations are.
Yes, in my work in Early Childhood (younger learners) & now in the education of of ECEC students (mixed aged learners), I have to make my expectations very clear. Sometimes (& I am so excited when this happens), they listen!!
In Library & Information Services courses we have all ages too – I am sure some are only there because of Centrelink – lack of motivation and interest 🙁
The impact of the Self-esteem movement is quite visible, in my work, as an ESOL teacher, as I teach English to adults who all feel they are lesser because of their lack of language skills. Their self esteem gets hurt quite easily, however, this issue of hurt self-esteem, I have noticed in students from both age groups, younger students and not so young ones. Constructive feedback is critical for their learning and progressing, but how we construct that feedback makes such a huge difference. Saying, that you have done all correctly, but for this, and this, and that, sometimes might work. They want to start all over again, and though they make similar mistakes, they keep trying. On the other hand, some students become really frustrated that they didn’t get it 100% right, and stop trying. I’d say it is their self motivation, a sense of self-direction that is the key for their learning.
So many factors influence how we react to things. You mentioned language skills, age and constructive feedback . Also personality traits will impact our reactions. A combination of nature and nurture.
When giving students a task where, the instructions are explained verbally, and in writing, and then students are also given question time i have found that certain learners are unable/unwilling to then attempt the task without a “safety net” rather than try and fail they will just freeze and shut down.
I experience similar, some keep working on assessments when it is really good and above satisfactory. Yet they still think it needs improvement.
I agree but can work through it with them and then they are able to move on.
I agree with you Ben. I feel like they are receiving more than enough support with instructions/explanations however some still need further clarification and validation.
I have a similar experience – it is as if they are afraid to take the first step. So what if it is wrong – just try again. This is a difficult concept for some students to grasp and a difficult hurdle for them to jump
So much time is given to those who freeze and shut down and very little time to those who don’t. Image how amazing it would be if they all worked independently and we only had to provide the guidance to their learning
Students tend to think they should be hand held and guided through every step of their study – they don’t want to have to think, research or make a decision for fear of being incorrect
In language learners, I have found the similar trait, especially the young ones, they just want the answer, and take no risks in ‘guessing’ the meaning of an unfamiliar word from its context.
I experience similar situations, when a students asks a question, I often reply with a question as I am not going to give the answer. The often get annoyed and confused because they need to think instead of just writing down the answer from me.
Not sure if they are concerned about not getting it correct or could not be bothered putting the effort in as have been “spoon fed”.
i also have found in students not a lot of initiative to think for themselves and to progress in a self paced manner
Reassurance, even if the students know that they are following the correct protocol or have answered the questions correctly ,they seek further reassurance
I wonder if it is because those students have a fixed mindset or is it because they require constant validation?
The students like everything to be easily achievable with little amount of work. They do not like it if they need to redo something
This is so true … they want to complete and understand everything in class and don’t want to do any work outside of class ie homework to achieve a better understanding
i concur they expect to achieve everything with little or no effort
The students that I teach need to be given step by step instructions even after explaining the steps they want to them reassure them that they will pass
Yes. I get ‘can you just check this before I submit it please’ a lot.
I have found that students love praise but become angry if feedback is not to their liking. This makes it more challenging to help students achieve competence.
I agree. In language teaching, feedback is such a dilemma, whether to just correct what they have written, or highlight their mistakes, and then correct!! Students need to be motivated to learn from their mistakes, and not disheartened. Still not sure if it is an age issue!
Many of the students that I teach needs to be constantly told and reassured to complete tasks even though i have done demonstrations, step by step application details. Positive feedbacks are always welcomed however, constructive feedback are not every welcomed.
GW
I get that, I totally agree about the constructive feedback. The student doesn’t really like that.
I agree. Students do not like to have to redo anything. They like everything to be easy
I agree, it has gotten to the point that I need to seriously consider given constructive feedback to some students at all, some have complained that constructive feedback constituted bullying, even though numerous others received similar feedback.
I find it is at times more difficult to teach a lot of the students due to this movement. They often get angry or upset by constructive criticism. Having always been praised and basically told everything they do is good enough, they don’t accept it when told that what they have done is not to the industry standard needed in order to be employable. It is hard work but when you do finally get through to them and they improve their skills and actually deserve praise it means more to them, because they know it was deserved.
agreed. They feel as long as they have turned up that is good enough to achieve competence
I believe that as an educator who is developing the future generation of students need to completed erase the concept of praise and let the children experience the reality of life as failures are a learning opportunity & motivation to do better. Begin by acknowledging what the children’s strengths are and what behaviour requires modification to be successful in life.
I absolutely agree with you. Positive feedback is important.
I totally agree. We need to develop the skills they are not excelling at to allow achievement in the future
We as educators need to be careful with our feedback and praise. Appropriate and in-time praise and adequate feedback inspire and encourage students, while inappropriate and wrong-time praise demotivate students.
I absolutely agree with the importance of appropriate feedback that is relevant and promotes intrinsic motivation among children.
It is often how you give the feedback. I teach a very practical unit. It is very obvious if an exercise is not correct. I check the results and explain what they need to do to get the correct results. Each unit (subject has a clear UAG listing the assessments they must complete the unit.
Completely agree
I teach a large group of students through an online platform. This is to support their theory ,and assist with knowledge and content of course material. It is often a challenge to get some of the students to connect .This is due to fear of failure or of the unknown .Strange considering they take many risks in personal life and online is where they spend most of their time. When they do come online and realise the support i can provide they seem to want more, as there is often a positive result in the outcome.
It is encouraging to hear they can get supported and encouraged and produce a positive outcome.
I engage with students of different age groups, ethnic origin and socio-economic background and the other factors not just age group comes into play.
I feel people who have suffered hardships are more like to show more of growth mindset.
I do see degrees of apathy in students in I engage with.
I am struggling to encourage and inspire those who have apathy or disinterest.
Absolutely true as poverty develops a sense of resilience & thus critical thinking & problem solving outside the box becomes second nature.
So true, hardship develops a sense of strengths and ownership of any failure.
Through my delivery I have identified two groups of students – those that require guidance (and take up about 90% of my time) and another group that are very independent and self directed with their learning. It annoys me that I get drawn into spending more time with students that don’t engage in their learning, and expect answers, rather than having the time to expand the independent learners knowledge and critical thinking.
The majority of my younger students are from a fixed mindset group due to the hardships they went through in their own countries. Therefore they need unconditional positive regard.
The majority of my adult students are of a growth mindset group. In other words, they embrace failure as a learning opportunity.
A small percentage of my students are women training to reenter the workforce. They are focused and very determined to do well. They often have to manage their study time and family pressure but still get their work done.
Teaching adults who haven’t grown up in Australia, I can’t exactly frame them into these mindsets, but I can definitely recognize certain characteristics that can either push them ahead, or really limit them in their learning, particularly relating to identity, risk taking and what motivates them.
Absolute agree Mon
You can definitely tell who has a fixed mindset and who has a growth mindset. I work with a lot of trainees, and the ones who successfully complete and get instant employment at the end, are those who are self-motivated and value the challenge of learning. Those with a fixed mindset are left behind scratching their head wondering what happened. I’ve recently started giving these trainees “learning challenges” where they need to problem solve and think creatively instead of providing step-by-step learning modules – the results have been amazing and the engagement has improved.
I really like the clear definition between fixed mind set and the growth mind set. I have all adult students and can identify very quickly which students are fixed and who has the growth mindset … always welcome the growth mindset student!
Absolutely – they are a pleasure to teach.
Yes, I agree – this definition certainly helps in identifying those students who will be challenged by the learning environment and those who will embrace the challenges of learning to move forward.
It really does make it so much easier when they have the growth mindset
Apathy; readily blame others; dependence
And they try to challenge you in every issue.
All i want to say is that I am awesome 🙂 Just in case nobody else tells me that.
I actually affirm my students, and this was before I watched and learnt from this course about how millennials work
However, I also try to get my students to think through a problem and tell them when they are wrong, but also affirm when they are correct
My trade is all about problem solving, and without it, students will struggle
The challenge is to help those students move from the fixed mindset to a growth mindset and that is where I see our future as educators and education
yes that is the challenge, and a safe open class room helps to achieve this
I teach year 11 and 12 students but at TAFE, so in an adult learning environment, as well as young adults. The impact of the self-esteem movement is so tiring, frustrating and causing situations where we only have the time to teach them the basics. They are not willing to do homework (including the flipped classroom model) as they want their hand held through each and every task. This means that instead of being able to have adult conversations about various solutions to issues during class time based on homework activities and research tasks, we do these together in class, which is not stretching their minds to learn independently and therefore not able to provide solutions and debate what could be both good and bad with their approach compared to that of others.
Very interesting Fiona. I teach in VET education, and we struggle with the same issues thinking it was learnt at school, but that is not obviously the case, so my apologies to those teaching in these challenging years
My philosophy in the classroom is to discuss and discover and the student needs to go home and do extra work to be self directed and independent learners, which some struggle to do
It certainly would make it easier if students could do this
Fiona, I could have written this! Yesterdays struggle was hand holding to get students to follow these instructions ‘Please write your name, sign and date this page’. Collating work last night and missing so many names and signatures!
I agree with your comment Fiona ,not self motivated to have a go in case they get it wrong.
I find young learners fall into linear learner category. They need every step clearly set out and lack confidence to jump ahead or work independently. To lessen this small set goals can build esteem. I do find the constant need to validate success draining as an educator. Real life won’t always give a reward for simply doing what was asked.
I find the same David, but it is coaching and directing them to a growth mindset is where the fun begins for us
David,
I enjoy your analysis of the young learners. They are exactly the same way that you have described.
I promote a learning environment that encourages self-motivation and self-directedness. I make all learners feel comfortable with their learning capabilities and motivate them to want to learn. I encourage everybody to get along and all to achieve their best! It is an exciting time!
I have seen how the younger lot of students is always after instant gratification. They are “needy” of appreciation of every single thing they do or they wont do it. I fear they will soon wake up to a harsh reality. Are the schools doing enough? Are they preparing the students for their( students’) future???
I am seeing, for example, early school leavers at TAFE struggle with the entire concept of a learning environment – however this is more than the impact of the self-esteem movement, its exacerbated by the ‘COVID movement’ and built onto an already unique situation: disinterest, apathy, disrupted sleep/wake patterns, distraction from phones, waiting for answers rather than searching. Every day is a challenge to come up with new ideas to engage, motivate and facilitate learning.
Yes Michelle, these are all the challenges of today. Students look for any excuse to grasp onto ,and as a society that is allowing excuses to be part of daily life there is no consequences for actions.
Younger students overall need to be spoon fed as they are fearful of failure, they don’t want to get things wrong, yet they also don’t want to take responsibility for their learning. The reality is when they leave school and TAFE they have the harsh reality of the real world where they are not getting a gold star each day
I was listening to a work colleague mention the same issue to me last week, very thought provoking.
Yes, I also have experienced many younger students who want someone to take them through step-by-step without trying to do it themselves and making mistakes. Working in industry they will soon realise that there is no-one there to take their hand and explain every detail as they will have to prove themselves straightaway!
I agree, However I try to set smaller goals so a reward can be a simple well done lets move to the next task. It is a generational culture for reward and we as educators need to adapt.
I think also that the educational environment does not help – learning in traditional classrooms sets an easy scene for comparison and competitiveness
A good point. Consider breaking into smaller sub groups so this effect is lessened. This also will mirror many working environments.
I have viewed this session with interest but I am not entirely comfortable with the statement that ‘follow your passion’ drives a person into a fixed mindset. People are born with capabilities they are naturally drawn to. That does not mean there are no obstacles to overcome but nourishing that passion is something that should not be ignored.
I actually took this as ‘you can be a superstar’, whereas guiding a student to fulfill a natural talent and interest is more realistic, and is part of my job role as a vocational teacher.
I find that many of the students that I teach need to be constantly told/reassured to complete tasks as there is no self direction and if not prompted in a positive they just throw in the hat. We need to be showing our students that internal validation and making mistakes are as important as recieving praise and that working hard and achieveing for ones own goals is as important as making others happy.
So true, many of the younger students are very needy. In the sense they need to be told, well done, that’s amazing etc
This is very true, and takes up so much of our time. I always go with a saying I have coined (I think anyway): “You haven’t had a good day unless you have learnt something new” and remind students that sometimes you need to learn from a mistake as it shows consequences which will stay as reminders of why you should try learn in the first place.
I find that a lot of students are afraid to try unless they are absolutely sure of their answers before engaging in discussion or the content of the lesson. I also have students who feign disenterest as a way of avoiding ‘failure’. They all measure themselves against each other and quickly identify the ‘clever’ ones and generally leave them to answer or provide input and then just agree. Telling the students that ‘failure is good’ doesn’t really resonate, not when they have never ‘failed’ before.
Yes jan, this 100% accurate! In alot of respects many of assessments that once were a graded system are now pass/fail and it seems to be very hard to fail these days!
Yes, I have experienced the same attitude with my students – even to the point where they are afraid to hand assessments in “in case they fail or get it wrong”. This is very concerning!
Many years ago, I taught small children. It was very fashionable at the time to promote self-esteem. years later, I’m teaching in another era and I see the consequences of prized, protected and special students.
Yes Helen, so did I. Now Im teaching the adult versions of them. The difficulty these students experience especially with common sense, attention to detail and motivation is crazy.
The students coming out of school today are certainly a great concern in how reliant they are on us and everyone else around them. They expect top grades with little effort and think that a lot of what we teach is insignificant because they are not going to start at the bottom of any career ladder as they will be going straight to the top where they can earn the big bucks.
Interesting differences between the fixed mind set and the growth mind set. I can relate this to my teaching practices and identify which students fit where?
yes, and easy to relate to one’s own children also and how you have parented
Yes Jane and Christine
Up until watching this I found myself to be a very strict parent who was trying to motivate my child to keep trying for better outcomes. Many a times I felt that I am a misfit but Now I understand that this generation is always looking for appreciation even before trying
Teaching learners in the VET area is very challenging.
The young learners are easily distracted and very hard to keep on track.
They constantly wait to be given the answers rather than thinking about it themselves.
The older learners may not be so confidant in themselves but do not need motivation.
I agree with your comment in regards to older learners
True Mark. The older learners are still hesitant but for different reasons. They are not shy in engaging in discussion and trying out ideas. The younger ones like to leave it to somebody else for fear of being ‘wrong’.
That is my observation also. I do find it frustrating that “using correct grammar” is considered old-fashioned. Learning how to do this correctly requires tenacity. In many instances, younger people miss out on the opportunity to develop tenacity.
Totally agree that older learners in the VET environment are more motivated – they want to be in the classroom which is always a good start. However, some do lack confidence and need constant validation.
Mark, I agree, older learners within the VET sector in my experience have already shown internal motivation by enrolling and turning up to class
I teach ESOL to adults, and many of the older students lack confidence and need a lot of reassurance, but ultimately take responsibility for their learning. To generalise, many of the younger ones want things to be easier and enjoy a much faster pace of learning. They get easily bored if we linger too long on one topic.
I think that easily bored thing can also be a result of the need for gratification. It’s like things are very stimulating for long so they need to move on
I think there are instances where this is true.
The students I engage with generally do not have much confidence in their work as they place so little effort in their submissions and are very needy in guidance and they easily give up. There isn’t much care given to the feedback provided to improve their work and therefore, they do not accomplish what they set out to do in the first place – learn and acquire a qualification one would think.
Perhaps it also linked to their self-image when their first attempt is not good enough and they might feel that I cannot let others see/ know this so best to lay low and ignore.
Trying to come left field and showing them that you care as well as have the expertise and the technical know-how to help them often makes a difference to their judgement of you, the teacher.
Tersem I agree with you. They look at themselves as losers even without trying a second time. Its time for us teachers and parents to learn their psychology and get trained to make an impact, I guess
It varies. I teach VET so generation, culture and previous education play a big part. However, I have noticed comparing older to younger students that the younger students are more easily distracted and less self motivated compared to older students. They want the the teacher to give them answers rather than thinking about it themselves first. Older students can lack confidence but have greater motivation.
I too teach VET and fully agree with your statement,
The increase in online bullying could be partly attributed to the desensitisation of children growing up during the self-esteem movement. Boosting their own flagging confidence through pulling down others seems to be a common and cruel practice that causes long-term damage to students who do not always have the resilience to effectively deal with it.
I agree – but this also might be to do with not being face to face with someone while doing the bullying. It is easier to be desensitised when looking at a screen and not seeing the impact immediately.
I agree totally with your observation of the correlation between the increase of online bullying and the self-esteem movement. This situation has been amplified with the self-acceptance movement. Unconditional positive regard for oneself has resulted in a generation that believe that they are perfect the way they are. They seek affirmation from others by portraying that preserved ‘perfection’ to the world through social media. This then leads to the need to criticize others in order to justify their own version of perfection.
The students I work with often do not have confidence in their own ability or judgement – needing guidance or direction before trying the task/activity themselves first.
You make a really good point about confidence and needing guidance before trying an activity, I agreed with your statement Sue.
I have had issues with younger students where I constantly need to encourage them to attempt and complete tasks. They show no initiative and do not take responsibility for their own learning, constantly needing encouragement. I encourage my students to undertake self-reflection after completing tasks.
The evidence of the self esteem movement is shown by students who seemingly cannot think beyond the basic instructions or perhaps are too lazy/cautious/unmotivated and need teacher assistance just to get started.
I agree – often I find it is a sense of cautiousness about their own perceived lack of ability.
I’ve found that modelling is essential with my students from this generation. They are not big risk-takers.
I agree with all comments. However, I find that if you can create trust between the students they will open up and become more adventurous during discussion or questioning. It is that fear most of us have of being judged.